Monday, September 28, 2009

In Rome, Durga is not welcome


By Kanchan Gupta

What does it mean to celebrate Durga Puja in Rome? It means to be humiliated, harassed and hounded by city officials who happen to be pious Christians. Alright, I could be utterly wrong in presuming they are pious since I have no independent confirmation of their piety or otherwise. But let’s get back to the question with which I began. Late Thursday night I was at the park near my house where the local Bengalis organise Durga Puja every year. It’s a raucous celebration of faith and culture. The food stalls are invariably hugely popular and there I was with my nine-year-old daughter, standing in a queue for kathi rolls. After what seemed like an interminable wait, it was our turn to be served. Just then my BlackBerry beeped. Balancing the piping hot rolls, dripping oil, tomato ketchup, green chilli sauce and lemon juice, in one hand, I tried to read the e-mail on my handset.

No luck. I got shoved around, nearly dropped both rolls and my phone, and decided to let the e-mail wait. Later, away from the crowd, I checked the e-mail and it was a fascinating story. Since the identity of the person who had sent the mail is not really relevant, let me reproduce the text: “The Municipal Police authorities of Rome have today withdrawn permission, granted three weeks ago, to celebrate Durga Puja in Rome. The cancellation came a few hours before the Ambassador of India was scheduled to inaugurate the Puja at 8 pm local time. No acceptable explanation has been given. This has caused the local Indian community the loss of thousands of Euros spent in preparatory arrangements. The same thing was done in the same manner in 2008 also. Please monitor developments.”

Now that’s awful, I told myself, here I am having kathi rolls and there they can’t even celebrate their own festival. On Friday, I called a friend in Rome who provided me with the latest details. Our Ambassador, Mr Arif Shahid Khan, a feisty man who has in the past taken up the issue of Sikhs being forced to take off their turbans at Italian airports, campaigned throughout the day, calling up officials, including the Mayor of Rome, and contacting members of the ‘Friends of India’ group in the Italian Parliament, arguing with them why permission for the Puja should be restored. By evening, the authorities had reversed their order and permission was granted to celebrate Durga Puja, which will now begin on Saturday, Ashtami — a full 48 hours behind schedule. Provided, of course, there is no last minute cancellation, as it happened on Thursday. Mr Khan will inaugurate the Puja, an honour he richly deserves.

The story behind the cancellation needs to be told, if only to point out that Christian countries in the West, whose Governments so blithely criticise the ‘lack’ of ‘religious freedom’ in India, have no compunctions about trampling on Hindu sentiments at home. After last year’s experience, when permission for celebrating Durga Puja in Rome was abruptly withdrawn by officials who cited specious reasons to justify their grossly unfair decision, the organisers, led by Mr Rajesh Sahani, a Sindhi from Kolkata who speaks flawless Bengali, took ample precautions this year. They were given permission to organise the Puja at Parko Centocelle, a public park on Via Cailina, Torpignattara. Three weeks ago, permission was granted for the Puja at the park and necessary formalities were completed.

Early this past week, the Puja organisers were told they could not use the park as a crime had been committed there and the location posed security-related problems. The organisers agreed to change the venue. Another park was selected, permission was given to celebrate Durga Puja there, and the preparations began all over again in right earnest. Then, like a bolt from the blue, at 4 pm on Thursday came the withdrawal of permission by the Municipal Police. The organisers were bluntly told to pack up and leave hours before Durga Puja was scheduled to begin with Akal Bodhon in the evening. Why? No reason was proffered.

Some officials are believed to have told the organisers that the cancellation of permission at the eleventh hour, both last year and this year, was meant to be “retaliatory action against the persecution of Christians in India”. It may be recalled that the President of Italy, Mr Giorgio Napoletano, has been vociferous in demanding that Europe should do more in support of Christians in India and to help them ‘affirm their right to religious freedom’. The Government of Italy has in the past summoned the Ambassador of India to convey to him that it has “deep concern and sensitivity for the ongoing inter-religious violence... that has caused the death of many Christians.” The Pope has been no less harsh in denouncing India.

There could be another reason, apart from its “deep concern” about the welfare of Christians in India, for Italy’s callous disregard of the sentiments of Hindus in that country. Although the Italian Constitution guarantees religious freedom, under the Lateran Treaty with the Vatican, Italy recognises only the three religions of Semitic origin — Christianity, Judaism and Islam. All other religions are no more than paganism and are to be shamed and shunned. The Vatican would not countenance any open breach of the Lateran Treaty; Italy would not want to be seen as recognising Hinduism.

“It’s only natural that Italy should have a surfeit of churches. But it’s the rejection of any other faith than Christianity, Judaism and Islam that explains why there are so many mosques but virtually no temples in Italy although this country has a large Hindu expatriate population,” my friend told me while regretting the attitude of the Government and the local authorities. According to him, there are only three temples in Italy: One in a garage in Venice; another at Frescolo and the third at Reggio Emilia. These survive at the mercy of local zoning officials.

But for Mr Arif Shahid Khan’s pro-active involvement — most Ambassadors tend to stay aloof from community affairs — this year too there would have been no Durga Puja in Rome. (The picture appearing with this article is of the Durga idol used at this year's Puja in Rome.) Indians in Italy owe him a debt of gratitude. So do Bangladeshis who are equal participants in this annual celebration of dharma’s victory over adharma, of the triumph of good over evil. Cultural and linguistic affinities unite Bengalis, irrespective of whether they are from the west or east of Padma, during this autumnal festival celebrated around the world.

Meanwhile, let’s not get carried away by the West’s bilious and bogus criticism of 'lack of religious freedom' in India and indulge in self-flagellation. Let the West look at its own ugly, septic warts. If Christians can celebrate Christmas in New Delhi, Hindus have the right to celebrate Durga Puja in Rome. This is non-negotiable.

[This appeared as my column, Coffee Break, in The Pioneer on September 27.]

122 comments:

Swabhimaan said...

Thanks Kanchan! Wish you a very happy Dussehra!

I discussed this with a friend and here is the response I got:
__________________________
Let me take a hypothetical situation..tomorrow an immigrant tribe comes to Gujrat, settles down and want to celebrate their local customary puja. The puja includes slaughtering of cow. Do you think the Govt of Gujrat would give them permission to do so ? Same with Roman authorities. Remember Durga Puja is pagan worship for them. Different culture different thoughts. And now if you want to do pagan worship in the heart of so called christiandome, they would not be very happy..its definitely a symbolic attack on vatican's teachings. The religions Rome recognizes also belives in one God who are more or less related to each other. You have to accept that they have the right to feel uncomfortable as we Hindus would be if there was any festival involving cow slaughter and more so if anyone wanted to hold this festival in any of our char dhaam.

Kanchan Gupta's last line reads "If Christians can celebrate Christmas in New Delhi, Hindus have the right to celebrate Durga Puja in Rome". Lets understand one thing. Christians celebrating christmas in New Delhi are INDIANS and not Romans or foreigners ( am not counting the small minority). Hindus celebrating Durga Puja in Rome are not Romans, they are Indian and Bangladeshis. There is a significant difference in the two. Thinkover it. They can stop Indians and Bangladeshi from celebrating Durga Puja but whom will we stop from celebrating Christmas - Indians or Romans ?

Having said all these my sentiments are equally hurt at this attitude of Roman Police. Being a bengali Durga Puja is closest to my heart. But then we need to understand that in other countries, specifically US and Europe, people have not grown up in secular enviornment as we have and have not been friends with people who are from different religions. They would react differently than we would do. We cannot start clamouring for banning of Christmas in India coz Rome banned Durga Puja. Mr. Kanchan's last statement was very irresponsible.

Kudos to Mr Khan for getting the permission finally. That shows the secularism of our country. A muslim fighting for Durga Puja so that Indians and Bangladeshis can celebrate it.

Think over it.

________________________
My answer is given below. I don't think I have been able to convince my friend...would need more arguments. Hope the blog visitors will help.

---------------------------
The same Vatican goes around the world preaching secularism, religious tolerance and protection of minority rights. Therefore, they need to be taught :'Don't preach what you don't practice.' Additional information : Italy and Rome are secular according to law of the land. Where is the equality and respect for all religion they so much harp on in our country and use it as a pretext for conversions? This actually exposes the basic belief of the Abrahamic religions that only their religion is true and the others are false.

The Hindus are not trying to convert Christians into their fold in the Vatican. The question exactly is this: what are the teachings of the Vatican? If you are so uncomfortable with religious beliefs of others, why do you try to impose yours on them? Restrict yourself to your native land and stop using your dubious principles for converting people elsewhere. Their beliefs and principles change depending upon the gains they can make. Hindus doing the same would be called communal? No?

Anonymous said...

Swabhiman:

First politely thank your pseudosecular friend for accepting and acknowledging the fact that Christianity and Islam are indeed foreign religions not Indian.

If, as he asserts, that Hindus in Rome are not native but foreigners so its ok for christians to ban them, then, would India be justified in banning Pope Benedict, Benny Hinn, other foreign missionaries and charlatans from preaching in India let alone carrying out their conversion activities?

What happened to minority rights? Hindus who have migrated to Italy have their children who are Italian citizens, don't they have rights as minority to celebrate their faith? Don't Hindu Italian citizens have any rights?

See how conveniently our pseudosecular dumbos switch between Hindus and Indians and use the words interchangeably?
But if you say all Indians are Hindus they get their knikkers all twisted? It is beyond their mental capacity to know that a Hindu can be a nepali, Bangladeshi, thai, indonesian, american, bristish, South african etc. etc.
If he can assume that all Hindus are Indians then will he tell what all christians are or Muslims?

Reform USCIRF said...

Thanks kanchan for highlighting hypocrisy and double-standard. I have setup a blog which highlights unequalilty at uscirf.
www.uscirf.blogspot.com is a dedicated blog advocating reforms at uscirf.
It provides a comparative analysis of india report vs. other report and highlights several shortcoming like Lack of standard structure and consistency across reports, Conflict of Interest, Lack of transparency and disclosure, Quality of content, Lack of independent verification of IRFA compliance, Faulty premise, Failure to represent both sides in an intra-member conflict etc.
For example:
Most USCIRF reports are critical of police excesses like detainment, profiling, harassment and usage of lethal weapons during civil unrest. For India, USCIRF reports police profiling, harassment, detainment and two gun-battle deaths of Muslim youth during police investigation of several 2008 terror bomb blasts which killed 308 and injured many more. As a rule, USCIRF acts as a champion of human rights and civil rights of accused civilian. However, there is one exception to rule. USCIRF India report has listed five events of civil unrest and mass rioting. In one incident alone police detained 35,552 civilians, fired 10,000 rounds of bullets killing 170 civilians and injuring many more. In recent times, only few civil disorders like Tiananmen Square witnessed higher usage of lethal weapons, killing and detention of civilians. Indian police response to civil unrest and rioting is too late, too crude and too lethal. Need is for rapid response, preparedness, prevention, usage of non-lethal weapons like Taser and greater protection of civil rights. However, USCIRF displayed little civil right or human right violation concerns around massive arrests and usage of lethal force during civil unrest. On the contrary, it is focused on punishing the accused. It correctly laments about sloppy prosecution and poor conviction rate. It describes Indian police response as “inadequate” meaning “too little”. It states “Mass arrests following the Orissa violence did not translate into the actual filing of cases”. In it's righteous zeal to punish, is USCIRF overlooking the fact that mass arrests without filing cases probably violates Article 9 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights?


Swabhimaan firstly your friend has made a false comparision. Secondly, Your assertion that 1st generation indian immigrant living rome should have lesser rights than a roman christian goes against several laws and international treaty.

Anonymous said...

One thought Christian fundamentalism is confined to the baptist churches of the American South. The Catholics seem equally ugly with respect to their attitude towards other faiths.

Swabhiman: freedom of faith is a universal human right. It applies in Rome as much as it applies in Delhi. The Indians in Rome were denied public celebration of Durga puja not because they are foreigners but because they are Hindus. Would they have been prevented if they wanted to celebrate Christmas instead? Your friend seems to be an apologist for religious fanaticism.

Anonymous said...

Kanchanda,

This incident is one more example of the fact that Europeans are hypocrites. Never mind the desi fans of the europeans, they are even bigger hypocrites.
Imagine Switzerland is ranked as one of the least corrupt countries in the world by the Transparency International, how can they be not corrupt when they are aiding and abetting it in the entire third world by letting the corrupt of those countries to stash their loot in their banks.

mpanj said...

Swabhimaan,

what your friend is arguing is actually addressed by NaMo at a Hindustan times conference some 2 years back.

I'll try and look up the video on youtube if it's still available.

The story NaMo narrates is that of Parsis.

When Parsis first landed on Gujarat's soil they made a very 'unsecular' request.

They asked the Hindu king of the time to allocate land to them to build their fire temple.

And the condition would be that NO non-parsis would be allowed to step within a 1 mile radius of this temple.

NaMo argued - People Hindu, King Hindu and these outsiders were arguing that they be allowed to not only celebrate their festival but have a permanent place where non-Parsis (i.e. Hindus) would not be allowed.

The King agreed to both conditions and allocated the land and resources required to build that temple. And he enforced the restrictions.

THAT is our secularism. Go tell your pinko friend to drag his head out the sand (I'm being civil here) and read up on what Hinduism and Hindutva represent.

This is our heritage, this is our culture.

All this talk that the West spreads about freedom of religion is a carefully disguised ploy to 'defeat' pagans and non-believers.

One last point. According to your friend's assinine argument, should we have prevented these 'outside' religions from taking root in the first place.

Should we prevent foreign money and resources from reaching local non-hindus.

Where does this inane argument stop.

The world must follow Hinduism's lead in acknowledging the existence different paths to reach the one supreme god - whatever you may choose to call him/her or however you may choose to worship him/her.

As a recent Newsweek article pointed out a majority of Americans are already doing just that.

Swabhimaan said...

Thanks for responding!

Actually, think over it. Sanatan Dharm or Hinduism is our religion..our ancient religion. Why should we permit faiths that denounce ours and believe that theirs is the only true one?

If the Vatican is ready to accept this logic, we should not have any problem accepting theirs.

Anonymous said...

As pointed out by the late Sitaram Geol and Ram Swarup, we Hindus make a big error when we quote the famous richa from Rigaveda in support of all religions being same. The full verse is:

indram mitram varunam agnim Ahuratho divyaH sa suparno garutman
ekam sadvipra bahudha vadantyagnim yamam mAtarishvanam ahuh

They call Him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni; and He is the heavenly fine-winged Bird,
One Truth (Being, Reality) the wise speak of in different ways; they call Him Agni, Yama, Matarishvan.

What it says is that sages / wise ones (viprah) who saw the hymns described (vadanti) the one divine reality (ekam sat) in many ways (bahudhA). There is no reference in reality to other religions being involved here, leave aside being same; veda does not refer to other religions but to a philosophical truth universally applicable.

As Sri Ram Swarup expounded in one of his books,The Word as Revelation: Names of Gods, this is not meaning at all of that celebrated verse. We Hindus hide behind this instead of challenging the "Only Our God True" crowd (as Swami Dayanada and many early Arya Samjists did)!

Anonymous said...

And, as both Ram Swarup and Sitaram Goel did. It is one of the, if not THE, biggest intellectual failures of the wider Sangh Parivaar. That is also the reason, besides a hostile media, they are always at receiving end in public discourse. Most of the work done in this arena to challenge the secu-liber orthodoxy was done by non-parivaar people - Ram Swarup, Sitaram Goel, Arun Shourie, Koenraad Elst, Shrikant Talegiri, etc. - with nary a tiny help from Sangh. Until they fix this weakness, they will be at handicap always~

Swabhimaan said...

Thanks for your arguments but please desist from name-calling. My friend is looking for arguments, not names. He hasn't given any to any of you. So, let us respect that.

captainjohann said...

Dear Shri kanchan,
Rome is not west.
http://www.bagc.net/bagc/durgapooja.html
You have very cleverly fooling your guillable readers of Pioneer with that spin. Only thing lacking is your inability to connect it to Sonia Gandhi.
I am an Indian Christian. I celebrate Christmas not because some white skinned caucasians allow me to. I celebrate because my nations constituion allows me to.By the way if Hindus are not allowed to celebrate in UK or USA, still i will celebrate christmas in India because i am an Indian.You guys cannot understand this.

Swabhimaan said...

@CaptainJohann,
the argument is not about letting you celebrate Christmas or not. It is about whether the Vatican gives Hindus the same respect. Why don't you shoot off a mail to the holy center protesting their behaviour instead of complaining here? Or you despise the Vatican for this? If that is so, I support you.

Vijayalakshmi said...

Kudos to Kanchan ji for the timely article with logical arguments, especialy the last line!Congrats also to Anonymous for the excellent points raised! We Hindus have been at the receiving end of aggressive conversions by christists,with the political agenda of changing the demography of India. A new census will expose them.The Govt's pro-minority policies are anti-hindu and discriminatory.Christians and muslims of India are Indians.So, is it not unjustified to give them special rights and privileges, which are denied to the hindus?

Vijayalakshmi said...

Kudos also to our Ambassador in Rome who has proved that he is an Indian to the core, and truly secular!USCIRF must ensure religious freedom for all the people, irrespective of the country they live in, but aggressive evangelisation, as is witnessed in India, must be condemned as it infringes on the rights of hindus to practise their own faith.

Anonymous said...

I don't understand Johann's point, except he kind of vaguely seems angry that anyone should find any fault with the (Christian) West.

Having said that, bigotry is one plausible explanation for Italy's action in this context. There could be another: Christian superstition/Christian phobia against pagan faiths.

Aryan said...

Johann,

dude you can continue celebrating Christmas, because you live in Hindu majority India, not with fascist italians. BTW italians wouldnt care two hoots about whether you are christist or hindu, as long as you are brown.

we are talking about the hypocrisy of the west in denying hindus from celebrating Durja Puja while complaining to India about mistreatment of Christians, especially Italians.

Countries like Italy should be reminded just how they stand vis-a-vis India in the post colonial period.

@vinugeorge (twitter) said...

In the writers counter arguement he says that Rome is supposed to be secular..so isnt India Secular?how then do u explain that minorities get beaten around and no one takes up thier causes..the writer tweets as if this is a major victory for India..but i always wondered..but is he blindsighted enough not to learn something from this? isnt the quickness and decisiveness that Vatican showed in wake of the protests,be learned from.Its a shame that we never learn.Yes,Christianity is based on principles of faith that preaches that there is only one true religion.But Christians dont go around beating people because they practise other religion in other countries.Why then should the communal forces of our country? If anyone wants to accuse Christian Missionaries of providing Food and Shelter for the poor,let them or their respective religious groups take up these causes and provide them these basic neccesities.Instead,the minority group gets beaten up and you expect THAT not to be called communal??also the respective governments in our country lack the political will to do anything about it.Worse still some parties support these prosecution as a strategy for the elections(no prizes for guessing which ones).i havent got the slightest problem in you going all out against the Vatican for what you believe is a festival close to u and ur communities heart but what i have a problem in understanding is how you can think this is a barter system where u 'allow' Christians in this Country to celebrate Christmas and use it as a reason for Hindus To celebrate Durga Puja there..as a friend mentioned,we are indians too and have (in theory atleast) as much as rights as you have.

Aryan said...

@vinugeorge

"But Christians dont go around beating people because they practise other religion in other countries."

dude, have you heard of american indians? do you know what happened to them? they got slaughtered, raped, and rest converted. Its the biggest genocide of all times.

you will say thats ancient history, what about NE states in India where you cant perform Durga Puja because church sponsored Christian hooligans wont let them? what do you call that? secular terrorism? what about swami laxmananda being killed by christists?

either you are blind to the facts or are willingly ignoring it to make a point.

Nobody is blaming missionary for helping the poor, Hindu organizations do the same, they just dont ask the people being helped to convert like the missionaries did during tsuanami. thats evil, even 'jesus' wont stand for that.

talking about missionaries, let me shove a dollar in your face, say forget Jesus the fake prophet, become a hindu, here is some food, aid. You'd be okay with that right?

Anonymous said...

Here's for our upset friend Vinu George:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDQmhd_9Wiw

Jiggs said...

Kanchan...

Thanks for exposing this Christian or rather Catholic hypocrisy. In this I must say Dan Brown by his books Da Vinci Code and Angels & Demons must be applauded.

A friend of mine in Chennai was outraged when he came across our Rupee notes neatly stamped with verses from the BIBLE last week.

Apart from it being illegal as per our rules, this is yet another cheap attempt by the missionaries( all foreigners) to convert more people. This is for Swabhimaan, dude ask you pal to explain such cheap tricks by these missionaries. Also, show him the book in Kannada which poked fun and abused Hindu gods and beliefs.

Christian missionaries and evangelists are as bad as the Jihadis. The christians who were converted centuries ago are of no harm at all, it is these neo converts who are on a rampage, the South and North East of our country is agog with unspeakable means to convert.

If I had to use one such MIRACLE BOX, I would write in a request on when will Jesus punish his evil followers.

Anonymous said...

Hey Saudi Arabia doesnt allow Durga Puja...as per non negotiable clause of Mr. Gupta lets ban Muslims from celebrating Id in India. We will allow Muslims in India to celebrate Eid only when Durga Puja is allowed in Saudi Arabia. Wonder whether China allows Durga puja..if they dont lets ban Buddhist from celebrating Buddha Purnima...

Swabhimaan said...

@Anonymous: Ideally this should happen. Why should we always go around with a begging bowl to get equal and fair treatment? This too is a game, a game of power. But we haven't been taught history and we have been taught that all religions are the same. We haven't been told how to make out the difference between Jesus and the Church.

So, where is the power that the Budhists in Sri Lanka can use against the missionaries, the power that Islam and Christianity use against the others? We are under pressure from the international community to prove that we are so secular, no matter how communal and fascist they are. And you support them! That speaks volumes about you.

How can you even think of living on this earth without fearing Islam?
When in minority, plead for minority rights. When in majority, use the majority power. Only Hindus are exempt from doing this. This is absolute justice! You don't get a choice.

Why should the Indian Christians speak for the Hindus? They are not just Indians, they have their faith too. But they know when to choose between the two, only the Hindus have to remain strictly Indian. Choosing otherwise is criminal for them.

Can Indian Muslims explain the behaviour of their co-religionists elsewhere if all religions are the same?

I want the right to say that not all religions are same. I am not ashamed to say so because I know the truth. Religion is not necessarily dharm. It may be.

I don't want to feel guilty for polytheism. I have the right to say that my religion is good even if it does not believe in one God. I don't need someone else's standards to prove that my native faith is good as long as it does not harm anyone else.

FYI : Buddhism is an Indian religion, not Chinese.

Anonymous said...

Saudi Arabia doesn't claim to be a secular state (saving grace eh). Infact, it goes out of the way to show that it hates non-Muslims.

Christians in western countries like Italy put on airs of being secular and lecture countries like India on secularism. But on home turf, they behave exactly like fundamentalist Saudi Arabia.

So who's less of a hypocrite: Italy or Saudi?

Indian Nationalist said...

I dont understand why we always pick on Christians?.......On overall they are Good people (probably even much better than Hindus).

We should be worried about only the Muslims, but that is one party that everyone fears since they know they will get their asses whopped !(sorry for the bad language) :)

Swabhimaan said...

No, we don't always pick on Christians. We pick on the sickulars whoever they may be and that includes Hindus.

Christians are much better than the Hindus...how? Please enlighten! Much better than Islamists...I agree.

Jiggs said...

@Indian Nationalist...

"Why do we pick on Christians"
"Most of them are good"

Dude, I agree with you, I too believed on those lines not far back. However, the Christian aggression in the South,East and North East of our country has opened my eyes.

They are both the same Muslims and Christians, aint no difference at all.

Anonymous said...

>>dont understand why we always pick on Christians?.......On overall they are Good people (probably even much better than Hindus).

>> We should be worried about only the Muslims

Overall Muslims are also good people. The issue is with religious bigotry, the sort that we just witnessed in Italy.

Anonymous said...

@Aryan

"dude, have you heard of american indians? do you know what happened to them? they got slaughtered, raped, and rest converted. Its the biggest genocide of all times"

Dude, I have some bad news for you. The "Aryan" racket just got busted. You could, of course, call yourself an ANI instead. Now on to worse news. The biggest "genocide" of all times is the "Hindu Holocaust". Millions, nay, billions, or was it trillions (?) are supposed to have been "slaughtered". Never mind that Hindu is a Arabic term. If you need to get the facts straight, just write to a two-bit college dropout French journo who goes by the name of Gautier. He gets a lot of play over here since he is White (a proper Aryan, wow!). Nothing like that warm glow of pride when a White man affirms your beliefs. A certain Dr. Elst, of course, will back me up on all this:-D

An amused (and deracinated) descendant of the ASI

Swabhimaan said...

@Anonymous,

Your comment does not carry an iota of logic. True sign of a frustrated person. A genocide is a genocide..whether it is the biggest or the second biggest does not make much difference.

Swabhimaan said...

I have a proposal:

Indian Christians truly believe in the values of secularism and they are all for equal status and freedom of religion for Hindus in Catholic countries, including the secular ones like Italy. Therefore, the Indian churches should ask the Vatican to abandon the treaty that it made Italy to sign. We need to check if there are any other such countries. Hindus will be generous and exempt the Vatican city from this requirement.

Possible outcomes:

1.Indian churches don’t ask the Vatican do this.
Inference: Their claims of secularism and being truly Indian are exposed. They don’t care for their Hindu brothers and sisters. It is established that the missionaries work only for conversions, because they think that theirs is the only true religion. Charity varity sab drama hai.

2.Indian churches make this request: The Vatican and Italy turn down this request.
Inference: The Vatican and Italy don’t care for the sentiments of the Indian Christians. They look at them only as tools to get more converts. There should be some crowd when the Pope comes to this part of the world. Who will bend infront of him?

2a. Indian Christians continue to honour the Vatican despite this. Hindus should press for banning Vatican outlets in India. Those who want to worship Jesus are allowed to do so but no Indian will be allowed to have anything to do with the Vatican. No visits to and from the Vatican.

2b. Indian Christians severe ties with the Vatican and continue to worship Jesus. Hindus don’t have a problem with this. We too love Jesus.

Indian Muslims should also think about this proposal.

But there will be no compromise on Holy Cow. We can ban Holy Pig slaughter and Holy Sheep slaughter (for the Christians if they want) in India. One holy animal reserved for each religion. True secularism.

Indian Christians and Muslims should also know how much their mai-baaps care for them.

But the biggest question is : Will they ask their mai-baaps to do this?

Swabhimaan said...

Forgot one possible outcome, though it looks like a remote possibility:
The Indian communities ask their respective mai-baaps and they agree.

Result: Everyone is happy.

Swabhimaan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Swabhimaan said...

Another proposal: Let us request the honourable Teesta Setalvad and Arundhati Roy to become the voice of their respective communities and present their secular demands to their mai-baaps abroad. I am sure they would love to do this!

Where are the fearless ladies that hold up the values of our secular Constitution, of a secular peaceful world?
We must get them!

If they are unavailable our secular political parties and secular journalists should take up the challenge and prove that secularism is in their blood. I propose the name of Sagarika Ghose and Co (Barkha Dutt n all), Mr M.J Akbar, our honourable PM,Rahul ji. Rahulji should be sent to Saudi. His charm can win over any hardened soul. His sister can also go along. Sonia ji should be sent to Rome.

Swabhimaan said...

sorry....uphold the values of ...

Aryan said...

@anonymous

really fresh somebody commenting on my username, someone that is even too afraid to pick one. when you grow the cojones to actually give userlf a non-anonymous nick over the internet, then talk, otherwise even on the internet you have a choice of hiding your tail behind your legs. It will come easier to you due to the extra space.

Oh so let me guess, your white masters, macaulay, Marx or pope wont allow to acknowledge a hindu massacre. I guess you are just a descendant of ASI deracinated byatch of older, dead-er white men then? maybe not as amused now =)just making sure is all.

I am NOT sorry youall's personal master, YSR is dead, ROT IN PIECES, and yes he deserved it, but cmon dude he was a slave to white master, too? no?

are you still amused now?

=)

Peace.

Swabhimaan said...

@Kanchan, Mr M.J Akbar does not read your blog?
He has some confusion with religion and dharm. Why doesn't he comment here? He can be our special guest.

Swabhimaan said...

An apt continuation:

http://www.lkadvani.in/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=6594&p=0

Anonymous said...

@Aryan:

Oops, sorry dude, didn't realize "Aryan" was your real name and Ekal Vidyalaya.org your surname, or was that your family name? So much for identity. Nice name that Sri Aryan www.ekalvidyalaya.org. Neat.

A little piece of advice: next time you get upset, run a spell check before you post. Might spare others some foam flecked "byatch" es, "just amused is all"s and "youall's". And might make it less evident how badly those large cojones have been tickled.

Apropos the masters, sorry to disappoint, but I am my own master. No Sarsanghchalaks or Imams or Popes for me. Good thing YSR caught it, don't you think? Maybe we can get rid of some even bigger criminals like Modi and Tytler the same way.

I look forward to an entertaining response and much hilarity. Maybe you'll tie yourself into so many knots that those extra large cojones will actually pop out of your ears:-D

Even more amused, yours truly,

The resident deracinated descendant of the ASI.

Kanchan Gupta said...

Anonymous: I am flashing the Yellow Card. Desist from further liberty with language. K

Anonymous said...

WTF we can't handle one left-liberal! He's winning this debate hands down, pathetic response from Indian right...hey bhagwan ye Indian Right kab taq intellectually deficient rahega.....shit......

Oldtimer said...

>>The resident deracinated descendant of the ASI.

For that matter, you are a vaccinated descendant of the ANI as well. It is speculated that the ANI and the ASI fornicated as far back as 40K years ago, thus deracinating and diluting pristine gene pools to a point where there are no ANIs and ASIs anymore. ANSI maybe, or ASNI, but no ASI or ANI, period.

But dear Anon (and it's not my intention to distract you from your little love affair with Aryan), I'm intrigued why you're so excited about the recent findings on Indians' genetic makeup. The other group that's equally excited about it is mass murderer Modi's. Wrong company for you, surely?

Aryan said...

@anonymous

The meek response speaks volumes as to just how far yours have receded. People with your particular affliction have the need to be a white man's 'you know what', you seem confused though about which white man exactly.

Out of respect to Kanchanda's blog will disengage from the trolls.

Hilariously yours,

Aryan

Peace =)

apologies to Kanchanda for the language.

captainjohann said...

Dear Swabhiman,
Thanks for providimg the link to this blog again.
I read your first comment and then posted my comment.As you very rightly said it is not about me an Indian Christian celebrating Christmas.
It is actually about some Italians ( who are of Indian origin and practising Hinduism or our own Hindu Indians working there)not being allowed to celebrate Durga puja. correct?
I just donot care for that fascist Catholic country or its practises.It is the job of Italians who practise Hinduism to protest and as for NRIs our ambassador has done the thing.Why should i shoot of letter to vatican to prove my patriotism to you who doesnot understand Indian consitution.I am Indian and i live in India if Saudi arabia lives in stone age that doesnot mean Indian Muslims must change that countrys constitution.It is the duty of Indian government to snap diplomatic relations with that country. Infact i RECOMMEND WE INDIANS SNAP DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH OUR MAIN ENEMY COUNTRY USA FOR USCRIF AS WELL AS GIFTING $ 15 BILLION TO PAKISTAN WHICH I CONSIDER AN ENEMY COUNTRY.By the way who are my "mai baps" or yours?My motherland is India but i donot consider any need to shout jaihind infront of you to show my maibaap.
Dear Aryan,
When you know the socalled west is hypcrite, why not treat it as an enemy? Majority of Indians are hindus and India is secular.This is a fact and Indian Christians and Muslims appreciate this fact.But that doesnot mean i am responsible for actions of Italy or Muslims of actions of pakistan or saudi arabia.You donot understand CONSITUTION OF INDIA.

Aryan said...

@Captinjohann

I support your right to celebrate christmas regardless of what happens to Hindus outside India.

But the Indian christians that go on international forums and complain about hindu oppression, should speak up and criticize Italian Catholic fascists for oppressing Hindus. thats all.

If Indian citizens in Italy being oppressed, regardless of their faith, you should have a problem with that.

I would never question the nationalism of one that has fought for my country.

Swabhimaan said...

1. Why should i shoot of letter to vatican to prove my patriotism to you who doesnot understand Indian consitution

- If i didn't understand the Constitution, I would have said that u should not be allowed any freedom of religion here.

2. just donot care for that fascist Catholic country or its practises

- But when the Pope will come from the Vatican along with the people who are responsible for this fascism, won't Indian Christians line up in front of him? So, then where is their love for fellow Indians? I respect you for being patriotic but it is not your patriotism that is being questioned here. Indian Christians should not complain if ties are severed with the Vatican and the Pope is banned from visiting this country.Will you support this?

- I DO UNDERSTAND THE CONSTITUTION OF INDIA

Swabhimaan said...

Inviting the fascist Pope is as good as insulting the Indian Constitution. I guess CaptainJohann would not want this.

Anonymous said...

@anonymous: No debate. Just fun while passing by. I'll let you in on a secret, Hindutvavadis are easy. Limited IQ + low threshold for getting angry = predictability. I expected OTboy here to pop up like a regulation jack-in-the-box. See? He didn't disappoint:-D

@Oldtimer: Vaccinated? Only thing those of us who voted to boot you out on your skinny vegetarian/teetotalling backsides are vaccinated against is rabies of the Hindutva variety. The same thing you are not vaccinated against. Now, if you would like that needle now, we can arrange for some mass vaccinations. All you have to do is lie on your belly and stick that backside in the air. Should be easy, considering you've been getting plenty of practice in the last 5 years. Maybe LKA can give you personal coaching on how to keep taking it with a straight face.

Period? Whose period? Yours? (pun unintended). There is a world of difference between personal opinion of your menstrual variety and the evidence-based conclusions of science. Read up. And now run along to Uncle LKA for that coaching.

@Aryan: Awww dude... c’mon, now. You’re disappointing me now. Don’t go. Maybe we could have a discussion on how you became my ‘you know what’ at the polls and on this thread? Pssst, don’t tell anyone, but I like having rough sex. Shall I get out the whips, dear? Maybe you’ll stay. I promise to keep it vegetarian. We don’t want to mess about with Holy Cows, do we?

Keep it coming folks, this is turning out to be more fun than I thought;-D

Yours truly,

The resident deracinated and vaccinated descendant of the ASI

Anonymous said...

@ Kanchan: In the spirit of fairplay to which I presume you adhere, I hope you apply the same standards of language to all your commenters. Unlike some of your commenters, there is not a single word that could qualify as an obscenity in my comments. Unless of course, you find the word 'backside' problematic. I can repost with a word that is easier on the eye if you wish. Cojones, of course, was used intially by someone else. Just like the allusion to sex, periods and 'you know whats'.

I assume that you don't suffer from the usual Hindutvavadi flaw of being unable to take satire with a sense of humour unless it is directed at those they perceive as "enemies" (their words and attitude, not mine). And don't consider LKA as a Holy Cow beyond satire. And can recognize a bit of fun and wordplay for what it is. A bit of fun and wordplay.

Yours,

The resident deracinated and vaccinated descendant of the ASI

Oldtimer said...

>>Period? Whose period? Yours?

The eagerness with which you latched on to that word is truly impressive, dear Anon. Periods seem to hold you in thrall. But I asked you to try and explain why the recent study on Indians' origins makes you happy -- so happy that you want to be known as an ASI. In response, the deracinated intellectual in you urinated. Kindly try some logic, if that's not too hard for you.

BTW, I completely agree with you on the matter of censorship. Kanchan should allow ANY dipweed to pop in over here and make a complete ass of himself if he so wants.

captainjohann said...

Hi Aryans,
You know in 1996 there was an attempt made by a group ccalled All India Christian council headed by an american agent John Dayal to include lack of freedom in India for minorities and inclusion in USCIRF(remember ISI supported Anjumaan was bombing Bangalore churches when Christians were persecuted in Pakistan and media was blaming Hindu fundementalists). he approached at that time 26 elected Christian MPs of various parties to support his cause. Each and every one shooed him away. But this time in 2008 he convinced CBCI(catholic bishops conference) and got support for his cause. Please read my blog on the issue. That is why i say it is USA which is encouraging these fellows and it should be treated as ENEMY COUNTRY.
oFCOURSE Pope is head of catholic church as such catholics worldwide welcome him.
Recently head scarfs were banned in france.They also banned beards.Muslims and Sikhs protested this.our PM supported the cause of Sikhs.Do you feel we should support this cause of Muslims and Sikhs?It is actually a school uniform issue and i feel it is basically a way of trying to see the face of muslim girls!!!
Let us say a American hindu is NOT allowed to practise Durga puja in pandal.Is it the problem of American Hindu or a problem of Indians of various faiths?Saudies donot allow carriage of even pictures of Hindu gods in purses of workers. No church or Temple there? In what way Indian Muslim is responsible for this stone age Monarch's actions? You see Indian Muslim persorm Haj by going to that country. do you want Indian Muslims to protest this by banning haj?
We Christians follow Indian Consitituion. If Ramvilas Pswan is supporting reservation for Dalit christians, a very immoral demand as for as i am concerned,then how do you want India christians to act?Nobody is a saint and if some foolish politicians are giving some goodies, dalit will not protest. It is the duty of Indian population to vote that fellow out.It is your duty to EDUCATE THE POPULATION TO VOTE OUT THOSE WHO GIVE THESE LARGESE.Otherwise just lump it.

Common Hindu said...

Hello Blogger Friend,

Your excellent post has been back-linked in
http://hinduonline.blogspot.com/

- a blog for Daily Posts, News, Views Compilation by a Common Hindu
- Hindu Online.

Swabhimaan said...

@CaptainJohann,

That is exactly the question. Why don't people like you make it known to your community leaders? We are happy with you and you are happy with us. What is the problem with your community leaders then? The Pope is no different from the Shahi Imams. You should atleast protest so that people like him know that you are not here only to take orders. Otherwise they will only use the excuse of Christian or Muslim sentiments to continue with this charade. Show them their place. That is when true Indian solidarity will emerge leaving behind religious differences... when we respect each other and consider India our supreme identity despite the fact that our religions are different, that is when India will stand united...when we don't allow others to discriminate against our own. We should not depend on 'leaders' to do this. This is our job. I don't see any reason why you can't lead this initiative given your Armed forces background. India needs people like you.

Anonymous said...

@ Swabhimaan. I don't think Capt Johann has an armed forces background, his user profile describes him as "A retired LearJet Pilot of government of India".

Swabhimaan said...

@anonymous,Never mind..he has the right thoughts :)

Anonymous said...

Every country enjoys the right to form its own laws , rules of governance. And Indians ( of any religion) residing abroad ought to abide by their laws. The political establishment of India ( including bjp ) practises a weird kind of secularism.And hindus of India unceasingly endorse it by voting the same back to power. Why agitate from Rome to Australia crying wolf (read racism)? Having lived in Kolkata for many years, am acutely aware of the militantly unethical ways bengalis extort " chandha" (money) from non bengalis with no hope for redressal. Hindus ought to correct their flaws instead of needlessly , impertinently bringing in Islam/Christianity.

Anonymous said...

Every country enjoys the right to form its own laws , rules of governance. And Indians ( of any religion) residing abroad ought to abide by their laws. The political establishment of India ( including bjp ) practises a weird kind of secularism.And hindus of India unceasingly endorse it by voting the same back to power. Why agitate from Rome to Australia crying wolf (read racism)? Having lived in Kolkata for many years, am acutely aware of the militantly unethical ways bengalis extort " chandha" (money) from non bengalis with no hope for redressal. Hindus ought to correct their flaws instead of needlessly , impertinently bringing in Islam/Christianity.

Swabhimaan said...

@anonymous,

You are talking as if all Bengalis are Hindus. I think the demography of Bengal has changed a lot.

There is hardly any society that is perfect. While we work on solving our internal problems, we cannot give others the opportunity to just walk over us anytime. All issues need to be solved but that does not reduce the importance of the issue we are discussing at present. It is this duplicity of the Vatican that is creating conversion problems in our country. While the pretend to be all innocent and holy, they are not. Is that any less important?

Swabhimaan said...

India also has the right to ban the Vatican. How does that sound? We don't need to ask them.

Anonymous said...

swabhimaan ,

Read my comment with attention.

I wrote what I have personally experienced.I am a tamilian hindu. Our way of celebration is very much lowkey , within the house & visiting the nearby Temple.

Para mosthans as they are endearingly referred to in Kolkata have invariably intimidated us , including shopkeepers around dictating the amount of money to be " contributed ". My study of Hinduism does not permit this kind of arm twisting.They are extremely spiteful luxuriating in political patronage- all HINDUS.

A substantial amount of money collected goes towards buying alcohol.Not to speak of the bollywood songs blaring in high decibels.

We hindus ought to take a hard look at ourselves first. And calibrate.

Why burst crackers during Diwali knowing fully well the damage done to environment , birds( ask Maneka Gandhi)plus the plight of children in Sivakasi.

The Ganesha idols painted with toxic stuff , pummelled ruthlessly with batons by the "devotees" to facilitate immersion. PATHETIC.

Why ask me about Vatican? Go and ask aol Ravishankar who calls himself the avatar of Sri.Aadi Shankara:((

Hold the government & its policymakers accountable.Why pick on me?

Anonymous said...

Swabhimaan writes:

" While we work on solving our internal problems".

NO. NOT AT ALL.

We are too sanctimonious to do that.We have perfected the art of finger pointing & blaming everything on Britain/America/China/Islam/Australia/Europe and ofcourse Saturn/Mars/Rahu/Ketu/kaliyugam.

Anonymous said...

>>We are too sanctimonious to do that.We have perfected the art of finger pointing & blaming everything on Britain/America/

And you have perfected the art of grandiosely mounting the soapbox and sanctimoniously lecturing to others without grasping the fundamental point being made.

We'dn't get that much exercised about Italy's denial of basic human rights ("freedom of faith", ring a bell?) to Hindus if a) it did not pretend to be a liberal democracy and 2) did not make self-righteous noises about Kandhamal.

Suppose the Taliban run Afghanistan, like they used to, and suppose they stone apostates to death, as they used to. According to the excellently humane principle you enunciated, it'dn't behoove any of the rest of the world to protest Taliban's choice to run their country according to their rules. Right? So far so good.

But supposing fundie nutjobs gained control of USA and decreed that Christians converting into Islam should be put to death. Does Afghanistan have a moral right to protest?

Judging by the clueless approach you have adopted, I'm inclined to believe you'd say yes.

Anonymous said...

anonymous above,

You are so woefully out of touch with ground realities:))

Don't you recall sm krishna's statements about India making peace with taliban ? About the flight hijacked to Afghanisthan? That Indians responded by clamouring for more kirikettu(cricket)?

Does not India make unsubstantiated ,uncalled for remarks about China? As if we indians do not adulterate/bribe/export fake drugs to Nigeria leave alone bombarding the hapless within ?

China punishes the wrongdoers. Unlike India. Where total anarchy reigns.

China or Pakistan did not arrest our Kaanchi Aacharya.

It was india yes an overwhelming number of hindus included that did nothing save secretly gloating or deceptively feigning concern like aol Ravishankars to Ammachis & several Anandhaas oops 'godmen'.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous above,

China didn't arrest Kanchi Acharya sure, though perhaps the connection between that point and the current debate must be some fine detail of the highly evolved dravida logic that eludes me. You're not the same decaffeinated ASI by any chance, are you? Anyways: China does not allow any of its blabbering bozos to post anti-China comments on the internet too; note that point as well.

Anonymous said...

anonymous above,

Spare me please. I cannot be pitted against your erudition.

When you can't talk sense , resort to labelling like 'dravida/leftist/decaf asi yadayada.

Anonymous said...

The following is exclusively my personal opinion. Am not debating.

In my stay abroad , I have been dragged to local hindu Temples.Somehow it has never evoked in me the same feeling...what I feel within ancient Temples within India. Paadal Petra Sthalam.Where Aazhwargal & Naayanmaargal etc have worshipped pouring out Received Grace.

I feel it simply cannot be duplicated. Most of us have reduced it to an excuse for congregating , eating , networking.Once the festivals are over , we are back to our avid worshipping of cricketers & bollykolly filmstars.

I repeat these are my own opinions, based on close encounters with plenty of hindus & hindus alone. Yeah , exceptions prove the rule, am not generalizing.

Swabhimaan said...

@Anon, whoever u are.. your points are irrelevant to the current debate. Please note the topic of the debate before posting comments. Rambling about anything and everything under the sun is insensible. If you want to discuss something else, create your own blog entry and invite people..else wait for the topic of your interest on this blog.

I hope Kanchan would agree.

Anonymous said...

>>Spare me please. I cannot be pitted against your erudition.

Nothing personal. I noticed that when debating the price of tea in China with dravida ideologues, they bring up the question of Kanchi Acharya about two minutes into the discussion, with the air of someone pulling an ace out of an unexpected place. You seem to be exhibiting the same symptom, that's all.

Swabhimaan said...

The lies propagated by the missionaries stand exposed by the following links. These websites have nothing to do with the BJP or the VHP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripura

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura

The word Tripura may have originated from Tripura Sundari: the presiding
deity of the land which is famous as one of the 51 Shakti Peethas,
pilgrimage centres of Shakti worshippers of Hinduism. Today most of the Hindus in Tripura, both those who are Bengali and the Tripuri and numerous tribes, are adherents of an animist-Shaktism hybrid of Hinduism, which was the state religion under the Bengali Tripuri kings.
'Tripura' is the name of a BengaliHindu form of Durga.

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/terroristoutfits/index.html

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/tripura/terrorist_outfits/
nlft.htm


These links prove that the 'tribals' being converted are Hindus. The Baptist Church is involved in funding terrorist operations. Forced conversions cannot be denied. Some holy cows the churches are!

Anonymous said...

Swabhimaan ,

Your fulminations remind me of the saying "more loyal than the King".

Muzzling is what hindu fanatics excel in when their faults are highlighted.Please desist from preening with unwarranted hubris we-hindus-alone-are-oohso tolerant, humble blahblah.

I stand by my comments. Am not going to let recorded history whip up such blanket animosity towards all Muslims & Christians of this world.

Even Sri.Aurobindo says:

" At that particular point of time , Mohammedan invasion was called for...".

Sri.Dattatreya revealed Himself to Eknath Swamigal as a Muslim !

Shirdi Baba was enraged when someone badmouthed Jesus Christ.

China very graciously invited Kaanchi Aacharya assuring of vegetarian food , clean water etc.

Certain bloggers here talk so glibly & spitefully about banning this & that.

Consider this...what if Saudi & allied nations decide not to give oil...Western nations- no weapons...am not amplifying...remember a lot of Indians including hindus have settled there for good ( better quality of life , infrastructure , clean drinking water ,better education better sanitation etc) any country can deport or discipline inimicals....

Do you seriously believe hindus would be able to manage , survive after dismantling of Pandals?

Agreed , precious land has been encroached upon by Indians within India to build churches.

BUT , don't forget , precious land has been gobbled up by Ravishankars , Nithyanandas ,Ammachis , hatha yoga & Pranayama peddlers etc abroad ( and within India) to con the gullible . With self anointed dubious avatarhood bestowed on them.

If I were to talk about the hindoo gurus' unsavoury conduct , financial embezzlements you are going to admonish me calling it "rambling".

Swabhimaan said...

Ok...take this. Two wrongs don't make a right. We are interested in discussing one wrong here. Create ur blog entry,post the link..we will visit it and discuss it there or wait for Kanchan to create a post for the other wrong. If you don' get something as simple as this..May God help you.

Anonymous said...

Out of sheer pity , I am constrained to point out to the howler Anonymous above , " holy cows " is mentioned by Swabhimaan .

Scroll up & read please!

Swabhimaan said...

Tharoor's tweet replay!
Take it easy @anonymous.
The term 'holy cow' is not offensive for holy cows but for the people for whom it is used. Its like 'as if they are so pious that they can do no wrong'.

Why don't people use ids? It is difficult to point out one anonymous.

I won't be surprised if the last two anonymous are the same :)

Anonymous said...

swabhimaan ,

You are wrong. Check it out with Kanchan Gupta.It is someone else.

Don't bother to explain the inocuous meaning of " holy cows ".
I am good.

Kanchan Gupta said...

Anon: I had flashed the Yellow Card. You wouldn't take it seriously. So I have had no other option but to flash the Red Card. Abusive comments that degenerate into denigration shall not appear on this blog. This is NOT censorship, but drawing the line between what is debate and what is no more than willful profanity. Please feel free to discuss, debate, shout, scream, whatever. But do please avoid abuse and profanity which really mean nothing and do not make an effective contribution to free speech. K.

Anonymous said...

Immensely grateful to Sri.Kanchan Gupta for not only objecting to "wilful profanity" but also giving this much of latitude to vent one's feelings.

As I did have a blogger id while commenting in a " hindu nationalist's" blog. Simply because I presented certain facts about art of living guru , I was muzzled with the warning " not a word against any hindu gurus ".

It does not require a Sherlock Holmes to figure out my id.

Thanking you Kanchan Gupta from my heart.

Anonymous said...

I have absolutely no problem getting along with honest,forthright, incorruptible people , no matter what religion they subscribe to.

Yes , Saudi Arabia unambiguously states its policies. Hence , hindus who want to work & earn there ought to abide by their laws.

Look at the positive points. Among all Islamic countries , Saudi & Kuwait ( I suppose UAE & Oman also could be included ) produce like milk , laban (buttermilk), vegetables (yes they grow many organic vegetables including a rare variety of okra that is almost extinct in India)are the purest !

No adulterator can afford to bribe & bulldoze his way through.

It is Indians , I repeat Indians (yes many Bangladeshis & Pakistanis also ...we all come from the same place right;)) who carry with them their incorrigible negativities like bribery , nepotism , adulteration , tampering with expiry date of edible products , brewing illicit liquor (many suited & booted Goans & Keralites openly admit during Christmas parties) reckless driving , wrong parking , fake certificates , fake driving licenses , spitting in verdant parks , frenziedly & surreptitiously plucking away the precious oleanders , petunias , marigolds & jasmines assiduously cultivated & maintained by the respective Islamic countries.

Leaving the rest unsaid.

Am not making it up.First hand observation.

I can confidently drink any fruit juice as long as it is made by an Arab in an Arabic restaurant. Not only pure but affordable.

I would never walk into any Indian restaurant. Fasting is a safer option.

mpanj said...

Folks,

this Anon guy sounds like another self-hating Hindu/Indian.

Nice. Macaulay’s seed is alive and kicking. I bet even Macaulay did not expect to someday rival Genghis Khan and his prolific procreative accomplishments.

Nevertheless, his points may SEEM to make sense.

But as with all brown sahibs, they are one sided.

He presents Sri Aurobindo and other leading lights of Hinduism and their secular leanings.

But where is the news in that. Secularism as practiced in India is a guiding principle of Hindusim. We don’t need a lesson from brown sahibs. India is secular because it is Hindu. It is not a gift bequeath to us by Brown Sahib #1 – Jawahar ‘Hindi-Chini-Edwina-aur-mai-bhai-bhai”

Anon, do us a favor. Name a few leading lights of Islam or Christianity who have presented a similar case in favor of non-Abrahamic faiths.

And we will let you gloat over LS 2009. Electoral analysis is beyond the intellectual reach of flame throwers.

Your desire to over exert your tongue to shine the dark crevices of your pseudosecular masters will only take our beloved country toward new depths of deprivation, famine and backwardness.

On the question of getting clean, unadulterated products from Arabs…. well, well. Lets drink to that.

But why are they unable to produce anything of value. Indians produce world class products from software to cars to services.

Name one world class Arab produced brand. Other than Jihad ofcourse. Why are these highly competent arabs forced to import everything from labor to technology to expertise?

India and Hinduism is no paragon of virtue. Granted. But neither are those child abusing, women hating, nuke dropping monotheistic faiths.

You don’t see Hindus going around the world trying to convert others by claiming that their brand of God is better than yours. We understand our flaws and work toward cleaning it up.

Therefore a Mayawati can be elected CM and APJ can become President after only 50 odd years of democracy but it took almost 230 years for a non-white man to make it to top job in any western democracy……

We may be slumdogs, but we haven’t built our shanties on the blood, sweat and tears of helpless, defenseless pagans.

Anonymous said...

Do see this film if you haven't already: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8980319065355588161#

A very beautiful coming together of Catholicism and Hinduism

Anonymous said...

Just to add, I am another anon to all the other anons-I posted the film link-its my only comment
TK

Anonymous said...

mpanj ,

I am categorically not into theology or analysis of past more than necessary. My oinions are based solely on my own experiences & observations.

Labelling & desperately trying to slot me only betrays your immaturity.Carry on , as that has been the wont of most hindus I have come across.

To the extent one abides by dharmam ( ethics/values/honesty )dharmam shields you. (Sorry , dunno Sanskrit hence this self styled translation).

Fuddy duddy rabidly fanatical hindus are their own enemies. You can cry hoarse hinduism is the greatest but as Sri. Ramakrishna Paramahamsar says:

" An almanac might say on such & such a date there will be rain; nevertheless , by wringing that almanac not a drop of water is going to be produced ".

More facts:

Spare me hinduism respects women tripe.
Nalayini/Lopamudhra/Savitri/Damayanti/Paanchali did not choose their husband(s) by matching of horoscopes/analysis of bank balance etc.

After a long time , I met a woman now in her forties from Kolkata. We all grew up there.( Thank God , I grew up in Calcutta as all said & done Bengalis are definitely a tad more intellectual with a better sense of humour than obscurantist tambrams...based on my life's experiences...plus I had a truly enlightened father with no trace of fanaticism).

She is still a spinster for no fault of hers but the casteclinging , dowry cobwebs etc of her caretakers.With much pain she told me:

" I have been such a sucker. Today I see lot of tambram girls marrying either a Bengali/Bihari/Oriya & living happily (yess I also concur with her). What have I got today "?

As , despite a job & her own small apartment , she is exploited as an unpaid babysitter , provider, cook, maid all rolled into one. She is forbidden from applying even talcum powder.

Most hindu men worship durga/laksmi in idols but treat their womenfolk worse than toiletpaper.( yes yes, men also abused by women I knowIknow what else can you expect from loveless matrimony)

Another relative born & brought up in Canada eloped with a Pakistani. In pavlovian way , I also concluded she must have got beheaded. Sorry to disappoint you holier than thou indoos , she is living in America with 2 children & the same Pakistani husband sans burka sans misery !

Another cousin born & brought up in America by us supercilious arrogant tambrams married an American (WHITE) divorced with a son from his first marriage. She is as black as coal. Your canard of 'racism ' gets busted.She is also happy.

Madhu Sapre is married to an Italian sportsman. She says:

" He bows down to my Ganesha and I have no problem attending the Midnight Mass....we are happy ".

Nadia a muslim tamil actress is happily married to a hindu.

In the name of religion DO NOT invade others' boundaries.

Arabs don't claim they are producing/manufacturing this & that. It is us Indians who sell nailcutters with " made in USA " engraved...where USA means ulhasnagar sindhi association..LOL...

Whatever happened to simple basic fundamentals like honesty......???

Anonymous said...

mpanj writes:

" Indians produce world class products from software to cars to services.."

ROTFL..

In the 60s & 70s , virtually everyone would beg for made in UK/USA/Germany/Japan pens , perfumes , undergarments , umbrellas etc from NRI acquaintances. Why , in 2000 , despite good scores , for college admission , most of the faculty of a very reputed college in India asked explicitly for cameras , watches , clocks , torches & even diaries made in Japan or some phoren country :))

Wake up ! Made in China cheap clothes don"t bleed ; made in India expensive clothes bleed & bleed with remarkable tenacity !

Stark facts matter not jingoistic claptrap.

Anonymous said...

>>I grew up in Calcutta as all said & done Bengalis are definitely a tad more intellectual with a better sense of humour than obscurantist tambrams.

If one is basically an obscurantist Christian fundie, growing up in Kolkata is about as reformative as growing up Jeddah.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous TK ,

Thanks a lot for the video link.(Catholicism & Hinduism)

It is so soothing.

Swabhimaan said...

Captain Johann's blog is brilliant!
Read the post 'Christian demands 2009 and responsed of Indians' - Posted on April 09, 2009

There are other insightful posts as well.

Anonymous said...

mpanj,

Let us put an end to deification & continued worshipping of Nehru , Indira & get on with our lives.

Only morbidly sick minds would preoccupy itself with private lives of Edwina or XYZ who are long dead.

mpanj said...

Anon,

You’re falling prey to an age old problem with Indians – mistaking anecdotal experience for proof of racial/religious/class harmony.

Nevertheless, your pain and anguish should give us Neanderthal Sanghis hope. Presented with qualitative and quantitative evidence we might just engender enough reasons for you to reconsider some of your long held (and ill conceived) beliefs.

1.

All religions have a social track and a spiritual track. On the social level, India/Hinduism has failed its followers.

Almost all Indians professing a non-Indian-origin faith have done so out of shear compulsion – fear or social ostracism.

Apart from a few sub-castes such as Ansaris, Syeds, etc. most muslims for instance come from the lowest of low castes.

The same with Christians (again with a few exceptions).

As a friend once commented “Hindus enslave their own”.

On the spiritual end though, Hinduism has few equals.

As a recent article in Newsweek pointed out – Americans are increasingly turning ‘Hindu’ not in the narrow religious sense of the term but in their practice. ‘Sarva Dharma Samabhav’ is turning into the guiding principle for most Americans.

Before you fly off the handle and attach some ‘white-man’s-approval’ motives to the above data point, you can see the same social metamorphosis in almost every democratic, secular, enlightened country of non-Hindu vintage.

Being white or black, brown or yellow has nothing to do with it.


2.

Every ancient religion has had to come to terms with the onward march of science, technology and democracy.

The role that religion and its institutions once played has been usurped by democratic institutions.

All religions except Islam.

Islam has and continues to remain resistant to the charms of liberal democracies. The most recent conflagration is only the latest episode in a centuries long battle being waged between religious intolerance and the forces of live-and-let-live.

Though there is one important difference. The impending end of oil economies and the resulting weakening of political leverage will force militant islam into its most challenging catharsis.

However, as muslim populations (in non muslim countries) exceed the magic 20% mark, democracies the world over will be faced with a painful decision – continue to embrace hard won civil liberties or suspend them at the alter of self-defence.

Stay tuned. You too my friend will need to make a choice in your lifetime. Lets hope you find your much celebrated cajones and join us – the righteous.

Nik said...

To Anon who wrote
'Wake up ! Made in China cheap clothes don"t bleed ; made in India expensive clothes bleed & bleed with remarkable tenacity !'

Anon - You need to wake up. Have you seen the quality of Westside, Park Avenue and Madura Coats etc. These last me at least 5 years. A cheap Chinese made shirt barely lasts a year. For somebody sucking up to Chinese products, please try some of the Chinese milk to which melamine has been added. Amul at its worst has not done something like this.
I have seen Indian toys made by Creative and Frank on foreign shelves.
What about Moser Baer which is the second largest maker of CD / DVD discs in the worls after Mitsubishi.
So M/s Anon - Please do a reality check before posting tripe.

Anonymous said...

O obnoxiously presumptuous mpanj ,

You sanghis stick to your theories whatever.

I was not born yesterday. Call it my fortune or misfortune , the ordeal of fire I have been put through has cleared a lot of cobwebs from my mind. Enough to warn my child:

" NEVER , EVER marry any Indian.
Better to remain celibate.

In the name of caste/colour/gender biases/religion/bank balance/educational qualifications/physical attributes/language/karma/sins/yadayada would be hell bent on ensuring you are denied PEACE in life.

But after hastening your death through a series of " good intentions " trouting quotations & quotations from Scriptures (preferably in Sanskrit to stupefy ) would make a show of violent breastbeating , melodramatic mourning eclipsing Sivaji Ganesans , ostentatious rituals & funeral rites presided over by nodders called (sic)punditjis.

Anonymous said...

Nik,

I am no xenophobic swadeshi sanghi.
The issue is freedom to make one's choices among a lot of options. I don't subscribe to " be indian buy indian ".

Why malign China with melamine in milk ? For that matter I dare not drink coffee or tea or anything made by own relatives & acquaintances.

For decades Indians ( vegetarian hindus included ) were using Dalda. Only to discover inordinately late that beef tallow was what dalda mostly was.

Right or wrong , speaking only for myself I have lost trust in most indians. Corruption & duplicity are so well entrenched.Overnight it cannot change.

Anonymous said...

" ...sucking up to Chinese products..."

ROTFL...

Have you been inside a Chinese store run by Chinese alone outside India ?

I saw fresh (among a lot of fresh produce)lychees in plentiful quantities ( within India itself they come & disappear with lightening speed aaaalways expensive sigh...) dewy fresh lemon leaves (dunno its English name but us make a herbal spicy powder with them) plus a lot more to cater to vegetarians.

Not just that. Any question asked about any stuff picked up , the Chinese girl managing the store had the right answers. Including tips on cooking , nutritive value etc etc.(It was grassroots knowledge not some hurriedly memorised information ) When asked to call a taxi for me, she did . (whereas an indian would size me up probing into my caste , religion, marital status ,native place, ...asking me to pay tel charges also... some multitaskers they are indeed)

More surprise for you..It was a Pakistani who drove the taxi.Not only decent , very tameez also...no , not put on. Did not convert me. It would take at least a dozen janmas for my husband & a lot more of my relatives to evolve to that level of decency.


Fillipinas also simply have it in them...customer service...Wish I had RKNarayan's writing skills to bring that alive. So spry and efficient !

Indian? No receptivity to start with but interject with yesmadamnomadamyesmadamnomadam & then ask " whatmadam ".

Anonymous said...

Kamala Das , the famous poet , writer from Kerala (who was predictably maligned , vilified by male chauvinists particularly certain hindu nationalists who currently are pruriently alighting on Edwina's anatomy & letters ) could not have put it better when she said:

" Most indian men use their wives as tranquilizers ".

Anonymous said...

>> Kamala Das , the famous poet , writer from Kerala ... blah blah .. "Most indian men use their wives as tranquilizers"

You pontificating Christian/Islamic/commie fundies are very funny. You want to impress, but you can't get your attributions right. If you'll exercise your gray matter a little bit, you'll realize that Kamla Das would either have had to sleep with lot of Indian men to know about their sexual habits, or a lot of women would have had to open up to her about their sex lives.

A simpler explanation exists. That quote is from Prakash Kothari, the sexologist. And that's pretty old hat at any right. Much water has flown down the ganges since then and many condoms -- which the old geezer in the Vatican doesn't approve of -- were also sold.

Communal said...

"Any question asked about any stuff picked up , the Chinese girl managing the store had the right answers. Including tips on cooking , nutritive value etc etc.(It was grassroots knowledge not some hurriedly memorised"

Tell me you are joking. Have you ever talked with a person from china. Its is really hard to make them understand what you are saying and then understand what they are saying.


FYI, some months back there was a controversy in a city called minneapolis in USA where some muslim cab drivers refused passengers if they were carrying alcohol as it is against their religion. So next time if you are carrying alcohol then don't inform the "decent" cab driver about it or you will be made to get down.

Communal said...

Anonymous,

"It would take at least a dozen janmas for my husband & a lot more of my relatives to evolve to that level of decency."

Looking at your comments and your visceral hate for anything Indian, I am not surprised at the way your husband and your relatives treat you.

mpanj said...

@Anon (the tranquilizer)

If you wish to use this forum as therapy, we will gladly assist, but please inject a modicum of objectivity in your arguments.

If interaction with a sales clerk or a taxi driver, informs your world view we’re in greater trouble than I had thought.

Walk the streets of Bombay and the stories of kindness and selflessness coming from ordinary Hindus would astound you.

Cab drivers (migrants from all parts of India) returning bags containing lakhs, left behind by absentminded passengers is just one example. Needless to say there were muslim drivers who have done the same.

To what do you attribute the existence of Bombay’s dabbawalas: One of only a handful of organizations to have achieved Motorola’s exacting six sigma certification.

And the cost for delivery those tiffins, day in and day out – a few rupees a month. China couldn’t emulate that even if it tried. Unless it employed slave labor.

The point is Ms. Anon, righteousness is not the monopoly of a religious/caste/lingual sect. It is universal, engendered in our dna by a survival instinct. Evolutionary anthropology has analyzed the ‘trust’ element in human interaction.

Without it, the human race would be extinct.

There in lies the difference between Hinduism and monotheistic doctrines. We’re taught to respect Christ and Allah with the same reverence as Bramha, Vishnu, Mahesh.

But monotheistic faiths preach the exact opposite, as their central tenet. A fanatical adherence to which has brought the world to the brink of extinction time and again.

A few questions for you:

Would you much rather live in China where the words you so fearlessly express would get you behind bars? Unless of course you continue paying rich tributes to all things Chinese.

Would you much rather live in Saudi A. or Pakistan as a fourth wife or worse, a glorified concubine, covered from head to toe in an oven mitt.

Needless to say India and Hindus have not covered themselves in glory vis-à-vis treatment of women.

Surely our record with female feticide is abysmal and shameful. But your beloved China has introduced a similar genocide with its ‘one child’ policy.

At least, our record is being addressed through the best (albeit lethargic) channels available – democracy and social awakening.

But the real difference is this: We’re evolving, changing for the better. Mayawati (with all her flaws) is proof of that.

Yes we have a our own racism (called Casteism), but unlike say apartheid we are fighting against it.
So instead of abusing your fellow hindus, why don’t you join this rebellion. Stripped off its prejudice, Hinduism is the answer. Even with all its flaws, it is the best system available to mankind – take off your blinders and you will agree.

Please I beg you – pull your head out of those sands of self flagellation and see life for what it is – a mix of good and evil with no one people monopolizing either – in other words – be a good Hindu.

Communal said...

For the person who thinks every person in the world except Indian is a saint, here is an eye opener ... Hallelujah!!!!!

Fake drugs -

"http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/China-passing-off-fake-drugs-as-Made-in-India/articleshow/4633377.cms"

Fake toys -

"http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20254745/"

Poisonous Milk -

http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2008-09/2008-09-19-voa10.cfm?CFID=312796036&CFTOKEN=50922208&jsessionid=6630452a3163fc68094369352e82c3f53f46

Pakistan and related topics

Exalted position of women in Pakistan, Afghanistan-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24LNQfIxbXI

Flogging for drinking - more exalted position of women

http://new.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=16447

Anonymous said...

communal , mpanj & anon ,

Savouring your pompously vitriolic comments. Spoken exactly like typical hindu barbarians.

To that fanatic who writes:
"... or a lot of women would have had to open up to her about their sex lives ".

Well , one woman while recounting her story broke down when she confessed:

" It was only after the birth of my 3rd child , I had the first glimpse of my husband's face ".

Don't you flatter yourselves posting links for my perusal.

I am no reporter gallivanting around with camera or taperecorder.

All of us are endowed with eyes & mind . Many are but mobile respirating carcasses incapable of empathy. My interactions have been very much with brahmins as obviously I am also from one such family.

Denial & excuses can never absolve the heartless. If you indoos are so cocksure of indooos' nobility why get so perturbed;?

Wallow in your smugness; diwali is also coming ; wolf down sweets with overfeigned bonhomie & dance. I am not complaining. It is your choice .

Anonymous said...

" Walk the streets of Bombay and the stories of kindness and selflessness coming from ordinary Hindus would astound you ".

YOU BET !!!

An Australian lady who came to India to visit Brahmakumari Institution was brutally tortured , raped & murdered by two indians (hindus). Also don"t forget , an Australian girl in Mumbai during new year revelry was disrobed & molested in the presence of a lot of fellow indians oops MUMbaikars. . Many were busy videotaping . None did anything to stop or save her.

Communal said...

anon,

Thanks for the compliments. Actually I knew I was a Hindoo barbarian but thanks for reminding me once again. (You can also add blood thirsty, hate monger, mass murderer, communal bigot if you want to. I don't mind).
Whatever I may be thank god I am not YOU.

Nobody is saying hindus are saints. There criminals murderers rapists among hindus. But so do these exist among christians (remember war on Iraq by a devout christian in the name of freedom) or Muslims (muslims kill more muslims than people of any other people. (Remember bangla genocide by paki army, or darfur in Sudan) or chinese (Uyghers will remind you what happened recently).

If you think the cause of all your evils is hindoos or Indians then good for you. Hope you live happily in this bubble.

FYI people of Karnataka donated 620 crores in 3days to help their brethren affected by floods.

PS : Thanks for your anecdotes. For every anecdote you provide about hindus I can provide 2 about other communities with LINKS. Refer my previous post for starters

mpanj said...

Anon,

We made the mistake of assuming you were here to engage in a meaningful dialogue.

Naah.

You sound like a baptist pamphlet.

You make Zakir Naik look like Swami Vivekanand.

How about what your Christian brothers did to entire races - Native Americans, Maya, Goan Hindus to name but a few.

How about your Islamic saints - they haven’t even finished yet.

Our point is the same: Hinduism isnt perfect. But there's just nothing better - and all enlightened societies are moving toward drawing the same inference.

The evidence you present against barbaric Hindus is anecdotal. As 'Communal' pointed out - we can keep this tennis match going endlessly.

Trust us, your chinese, islamic and missionary friends have piled up centuries worth of deeds for us to throw right back at you.

But it doesnt achieve much.

Unless of course, this is therapeutic. In which case we can just play along and save you some hours (and Remembis) on your shrink’s couch.

Anonymous said...

Proof by emotional blackmail doesn't impress me very much but this is intriguing:

>> one woman while recounting her story broke down when she confessed: "It was only after the birth of my 3rd child , I had the first glimpse of my husband's face "

Perhaps he never knew there was something called a Missionary Position.

Anonymous said...

" Proof by....doesn't impress me very much "

What an underwhelming intellect !

I am not writing comments to "impress ". Truth hurts , isn't it ?

Those indoos who quote from history books:

Go & ask Aurangazeb , XYZ...not me.

Inshaallah , Everything happens by God's Will , Avanandri Oru Anuvum Asaiyaadhu......all mean the same , couched in different languages.

Swami Chinmayananda was once requested by certain indoos to open a new temple dedicated to national/international integration with various * Gods * representing variegated faiths. He curtly replied:

" Invent at least 100 more Gods & then come to me ".

Am sure this would go over most of your empty heads filled with rabid mulish fanaticism.

Anonymous said...

>>Invent at least 100 more Gods & then come to me ".

The sublimity and profundity of this alleged Chinmayananda quote sure misses this particular indoo, Clever One. Feel free to explain. Was the swami referring to the Catholic practice of scouting the planet for miracle-performers and anointing them Saints? John Paul II apparently manufactured more saints than several of his predecessors put together ..

Anonymous said...

" Perhaps he......Position ".

Trust you smutty hindu barbarians to come up with such comments.

No wonder India has the dubious distinction of having the RAPE capital of the world. Some achievement , I am impressed !

Why don't you consult hatha yoga peddlers like Iyengar , late Pattabi Jois , Ramdev who grants special audiences to certain filmstars , starlets , as your field of specialisation seems to be " positions ".

GOD BLESS AMERICA that does defrock & penalise the wrongdoers.No indian whatever be his caste can remain a fugitive from Justice in America.

Only indians resort to karma , non internalised quotations , bribery & foul means to remain unpunished.

Spare me your regurgitated vomitus
" however....., having said that...."

Anonymous said...

" Feel free to explain " anon ,

Don't count on that:))

Idiocy has no cure (V......e)

Anonymous said...

Excessively sanctimonious communal ,mpanj & several such anonymice forever fingerpointing at Islam/Christianity/Pakistan/USA/China/Australia/UK/Europe ,

In Mahabharatham leading to Kurukshetra War , there are no muslims or christians.

Why give communal colours to what is but a patent tussle between dharmam & adharmam ?

Want me to believe you barbarians are THAT overnaive ???

Despite being tenaciously ensconced in USA most Indians pour venom over America. Ever petulant & grouchy.

But avidly copy their ways of talking , walking , writing , pilfer from their movies , music etc. Yet thumb your arrogant noses at America & Australia. Shall we call it sudden wealth syndrome ???

Thiruvalluvar declares:

" Eternal Damnation awaits the ungrateful".

Swabhimaan said...

No it is not about giving it communal colours but bringing out the colours some religions/sects /countries hide while going around castigating others for the same.

Their was a world when the whites were in jungles ..the one that didn't have to worry about pollution and global warming.
That was Bharat...different and sophisticated in a good way. There are two ways of dealing with a situation. First is escapism which you seem to have followed and the other is working on the ground to strive for a better tomorrow. We the barbarians love to do the second. We don't have time to waste for escapists.

Anonymous said...

Revoltingly loquacious communal & similar clones , desperately dithering " remember this....remember that...",

The following words of Varsha Bhosle alone are worth ruminating over:

" So who decides when the sabotage of one's government is justified? The Opposition parties? The historians of the conquering countries? The "ordinary people" who pour into the streets to kick at fallen statues and celebrate by looting museums? Or the people who become "the rabble" during communal strife...? Oh puh-lease, spare me the lecture on patriotism: You wouldn't know it if it bit off your nose ".

Anonymous said...

>>Why don't you consult hatha yoga peddlers like Iyengar

Oh boy. Now yoga is the target because it's indoo. Can't wait to see what surprise this person's vintage whine collection has in store for us next.

>>GOD BLESS AMERICA that does defrock & penalise the wrongdoers.

What? No god bless Japan even though there are no indoos there? No god bless Bhutan? These bloody communal Christians want god to bless Christian America only although San Fernando valley is the porn capital of the world where actresses are defrocking for cameras as we speak.

>>But avidly copy their ways of talking , walking , writing , pilfer from their movies , music etc. Yet thumb your arrogant noses at America & Australia

We're pilfering from their atheists too in case you didn't notice. Here's Richard Dawkins in "The God Delusion":

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully"

Anonymous said...

Abhorrently self righteous Swabhimaan , narrating "onceuponatime....."(ooooooaahhhh actually I am yawning dunno emoticon)

Were you physically present then ?

NO.

None of us are the anointed movers & shakers of this world. Or the Creator.

Such cretinous anachronistic intellect of fanatical barbarians is so trenchantly brought out by the peerless John Cleese in Fawlty Towers with his unforgettable:

" But you invaded Poland ".

Swabhimaan said...

no I was not present then but the ones you eulogize can use their highly intelligent systems to ascertain facts about that period. I never claimed to be self-righteous...you are the one who has been shouting about it.

You should also know that the people who are responsible for all these inventions you are harping about do pay gratitude to India and its knowledge. But you won't get it because you don't seem to have a tiny bit of what is called intelligence. Now just get lost with your garbage.

jaake apne husband ko pakao.

Anonymous said...

This anon who quotes Richard Dawkins really likes to show off:)) Earlier it was " when I discussed price of tea..."

When you presume you are the repository of yoga , knowledge , various isms why get such palpitations ?? Ignore my comments. Simple.

Cheers.

Anonymous said...

Guffawing out ebulliently !

swabhimaan ,

Style is the man !

Swabhimaan said...

Good..try getting ur IQ, EQ checked. I'm sure for you these are too low to be measured.

Communal said...

@anon..

"Go & ask Aurangazeb , XYZ...not me."
I thought it was you who were lecturing us in your self sanctimonious way. Next time you whine about the glory of Islam do so to Aurangzeb. We are not blind or deaf. Action of Islamists speaks louder than your sanctimonius words. (Even loader when it is a bomb blast....27 mins ago 27 killed in a blast in Iraq )

"No wonder India has the dubious distinction of having the RAPE capital of the world."
Tell this in the bible belt of USA or neighbourhood Madrasa and chances are people will hold you in awe for your knowledge. But not here madam. Have you heard of South Africa, Congo, Rwanda, Sudan...

"Why don't you consult hatha yoga peddlers like Iyengar , late Pattabi Jois , Ramdev who grants special audiences to certain filmstars , starlets , as your field of specialisation seems to be " positions "

Whats your problem if they give special audiences. Pope gives special audience to the president of USA. (any comments) You seem to have problem with everything Indian does.


"Excessively sanctimonious communal ,mpanj & several such anonymice forever fingerpointing at Islam/Christianity/Pakistan/USA/China/Australia/UK/Europe ,
"

Are we alone being sanctimonious? Are we alone fingerpointing? I thought we were in a death match with you in these 2 categories. To be honest, with your anecdotes you are doing a much better job than we combined.

"This anon who quotes Richard Dawkins really likes to show off:))"

What about the person who ebulliently qoutes - Chinmayananda, Kamala Das, Varsha Bhosle.....


Why did you stop those anecdotes....I was really enjoying. (Sorry you need time to create new ones. I will wait. They are worth the wait)

Anonymous said...

communal ,

Oh you are enjoying my comments ??

Because your English is getting improved for FREE !! By shepherding words used by me. " ebulliently " to start with .

What a shameless, colossal nincompoop !!!!!

mpanj said...

Folks,

Mrs. Anon. may actually be Varsha Bhosle. Varsha Bhosle has been out of action for almost a decade.

The fact that a loony commie troll quotes VB, is in and of itself a startling outlier.

Also, VB's personal life has several parallels to what Anon claims to have gone through.

The Varsha Bhosle I remember was a die hard nationalist - she could make a Sanghi look like a tree hugger.

Also, the language Anon uses, is very similar in style and vitriolic to VB.....hmmm....

Anon - stop teasing. In the books of us barbarians, responding to your ever inane arguments qualifies as 'good deed for the day'.

We have saved you from more trips to your shrink. Clearly you need a new therapist.

Better still keep abusing all things Hindu - free therapy.

Besides, Hinduism has survived through so many assaults that another insignificant commie would be a drop in the bucket.

Communal said...

Anon,

I was expecting some some stupid response from you. But your last comment surpassed all my expectations of your stupidity.

Anyway if YOU THINK that my english is improving because of you, then good for you. I am sorry if I violated your copyright on some of the English words. (One more crime you can add to the list of crimes committed by the damn barbarian Hindoos)

As for the enjoying your comments is concerned, it is sheer joy to see a person whining, blaming others for all her miseries. The free entertainment you provide - I will surely thank you for that.

(I really pity your husband - However bad he may be he surely deserves better. Please convey my sympathies to him)

PS - Still waiting for anecdotes.

Communal said...

"What a shameless, colossal nincompoop !!!!!"

See now you are downgrading me. I am a barbarian (Hindooo barbarian). Please maintain your standard in abuses.

Anonymous said...

There are lot of admirers of Pakisthan, China or Afghanisthan here. I don't know why they go and live there or atleast visit those places and talk about the problems their society faces (talk against taliban and al-qaida) and come back alive.

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